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Report 1338
Report #1338 Skillset: Shadowbeat Skill: BarghestBlues Org: Harbingers Status: Completed Apr 2015 Furies' Decision: Approved for solution 1. Problem: BarghestBlues is a low stanza ability in the Shadowbeat skillset. It adds about one second to the balance recovery for the herb balance, provided the enemy within the room is both hearing and not captivated. Herb balance has since been split into three separate balances with plans to remove the remaining herb balances (aside earwort|faeleaf|myrtle if I understand correctly) in a fourth new cure. BarghestBlues currently has no effect on the new cures at all, limiting its usefulness to earwort|myrtle|faeleaf and the remaining herb cures presently in the system where it originally prolonged herb balance on every herb cure. This report aims to make sure BarghestBlues retains its value across the overhaul and remains current with the changing pace of combat. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Have BarghestBlues affect the dust balance. 0 R: 0 Solution #2: Have BarghestBlues affect the balances of dust, steam and lucidity in addition to the remaining herb balances. 0 R: 0 Solution #3: Have BarghestBlues affect the balances of dust and lucidity in addition to the remaining herb balances. Player Comments: ---on 3/24 @ 08:19 writes: In the past, BarghestBlues affected: aurics(reishi), earwort, faeleaf, dementia(pennyroyal), epilepsy(kombu), stupidity(pennyroyal), paranoia(pennyroyal), clumsiness(kombu), relapsing(yarrow), sensitivity(myrtle), weakness(marjoram), healthleech(horehound), recklessness(horehound), haemophilia(yarrow), addiction(galingale), confusion(pennyroyal),hallucinations(pennyroyal), deadening(kombu). ---on 3/24 @ 08:21 writes: All herbs, I'm pretty sure. ---on 3/24 @ 08:25 writes: Yep. All the affs listed above can be given either by Shadowbeat or one of the Bard tertiaries(Glamours, Dramaturgy, Ecology) ---on 3/24 @ 08:26 writes: The above afflictions and their current cures: aurics(steam blend), epilepsy(lucidity slush), stupidity(lucidity slush), clumsiness(lucidity slush), paranoia(lucidity slush), sensitivity(lucidity slush), healthleech(steam blend), recklessness(lucidity slush), haemophilia(dust), addiction(lucidity slush), confusion(lucidity slush), hallucinations(lucidity slush). ---on 3/24 @ 08:28 writes: With the details posted above, I suggest having BBlues affect lucidity slush, purity dust, steam blend, and dust balance IN ADDITION TO faelaef/earwort(if these are not going away). ---on 3/24 @ 09:57 writes: Agree with problem premise: in the old system, herbs cured a great deal of afflictions, including even some which are now slated to become external afflictions. I think it's reasonable to have barghestblues affect at least the lucidity/steam/dust balances in order to maintain status quo. Solution 2 supported. Not sure if there is a need for it to affect all affliction curing, though (even though, as I mentioned, a few of the old herb afflictions will become external afflictions). ---on 3/24 @ 14:03 writes: This sounds like something you could bug (literally bug and figuratively bug Ieptix about) rather than envoy. ---on 3/24 @ 23:19 writes: With paralysis being moved to an internal affliction and the ability to potentially stack it and the worries that may be in that direction, I thought it would be important to have input from proper combatants rather than prod Ieptix into making something which, while fine to me, might be a little bit overwhelming if not given proper forethought. My preference is towards Solution 2. ---on 3/24 @ 23:57 writes: I agree with the premise, but delaying even 3 of the 4 new balances seems to be a rather large buff. Many herb cures had multiple cures (focus, purgs, allheale in the case of aurics was used readily in octave) and those are all slated to be focused into one affliction - one cure scheme. I'm hesitant to support any of the proposed solutions with that in mind. I think extending one cure balance (maybe dust) is more appropiate ---on 3/25 @ 02:09 writes: Indeed, it was a choice between a slightly extended balance from barghest blues or mana pressure from focusing with NSB up, although that can be worked around by only focusing when deaf. Still, I think BBlues would lose its potency if ceased affecting aurics(steam) and the SB-inherest affs(mostly slush cures) at the very least. Unless new ideas are put forward, I ---on 3/25 @ 02:10 writes: *I'll be supporting solution 2 for now. ---on 3/25 @ 03:06 writes: I'm okay with it affecting steam too, I just said dust because it's closest to herb. I don't see any issues with slowing steam balance instead. I think it should only extend 1 of the 4 balances still, not 3 of the 4. ---on 3/25 @ 05:22 writes: @Synkarin BarghestBlues is not gaining any affect by delaying the three cures as it originally delayed every one of the cures. Normally you would have had to cure each of the afflictions in one big chain on the same balance, consecutively making each cure take longer and longer to cure by regular means. By having the afflictions spread out over three balances, you can cure three afflictions at once where you would have originally had to have waited for herb balance to return each time or focus them off. I am under the impression that the point of BarghestBlues was originally to force the target to focus. Focusing body under the influence of NSB consumes 325 mana and, in the most prepared senario, health. While that may not sound like much, the bard is capable of supplying the conditions to force the focus passively if the target is above 600 bleeding. Keeping in mind that at 600 bleeding and under the influence of the Shadowbeat, your clots will only clot 16 bleeding and cost 1.5 times the regular amount, the passive pressure from forcing the target to focus amounts to the kill method where the afflictions do little to help the Harbinger on their own. At the point of passively inducing paralysis, the target has 600 bleeding. Subtracting, say, 120 from Kingdom, the target is left with 480 units of bleeding. Under the influence of Bloodycaps, that's 30 clots. 30 clots * 90 mana under the influence of NSB is 2700 units of mana to remove your bleeding actively. At this particular point, I think that 325 mana is a respectable amount to burn considering that the afflictions usually focused off don't generally contribute to the Harbinger's reliable killmethods. Losing this passive pressure hinders the Harbingers attrition and the thematic killstyle of the Shadowbeat skillset which is slowly draining a persons vitals until they die from bleeding out or bloodletting. If the point of BarghestBlues was originally to force the target to focus, I believe it should still retain its purpose to force the tar ---on 3/25 @ 05:23 writes: If the point of BarghestBlues was originally to force the target to focus, I believe it should still retain its purpose to force the target to need to switch to other methods of curing across the afflictions which it originally affected. The steam balance was thrown into Solutions 1 and 2 to reflect the fact that the Harbingers aurics were originally on the horehound herb and on the herb balance. Ill admit that the Harbinger has no deeper need to retain this as we dont really apply any other of the spiritual afflictions. It was added in order to retain the value of BarghestBlues purpose. While you may view it as a large buff, I am personally viewing the removal of focus as a (maybe large) nerf to the Harbingers passive pressure and a dent to their thematic killstyle, where removing your afflictions through force of will would amount to bleeding out your vitals and attributing to the bloodletting style. In summary: It is in my opinion through my use of Shadowbeat before and after the current stage of the overhaul, the intent of BarghestBlues is to force the focusing of afflictions and thus attribute to the bloodletting of mana, lending to the bleeding out thematic, sweating off afflictions which rarely assist the Harbinger reach their killmethod aside the focusing of them (Passive equil/balance throws, command denial without a lock, paranoia, clumsiness). Adding a mana cost to consuming cures seemed like a bogus idea which would compile terribly in a room left unchecked. This way BarghestBlues retains its original flavour on the three balances (which it would have taxed anyway). Once again, you may view this as a buff but I am still personally of the thought that it has hindered the passive pressure applied by a Harbinger instead of giving them more. Solution 3 would be the least useful but still enough to keep it used. Any less would not reflect the skills original intent. ---on 3/25 @ 05:27 writes: I apologise for the typos in my comments. Ahem. ---on 3/25 @ 22:34 writes: Solution 3 is fine. Having it affect more than that seems a bit much for a low stanza song. ---on 3/25 @ 23:38 writes: Support, for Solution 3 only. ---on 3/26 @ 00:23 writes: After reading that entire comment that pretty much just said the point of Barghestblues won't actually be relevant after focus is removed, the issue then comes to the strength of a low stanza song affecting multiple cure balances. It currently affects one balance for afflictions that have multiple cures (herb, focus, sometimes purg) and moving that to effect 2/3 of 4 balances in a system where each affliction only has one cure. This means you'll now be forced to use that 1 cure each and every time, leading more to the 'chain' effect Yarith mentioned before. This means that chaining will be much more prevalent post- overhaul than it is now, pre-overhaul. So yes, I think it'll be a significant buff to have it effect more than 1 balance, because it'll extend and cause chaining on multiple balances instead of just one herb balance. I don't really like the idea of it effecting 2 balances, but I can go for solution 3 for the time being until things are more finalized and it can be reconsidered. ---on 3/26 @ 00:31 writes: Yeah. I'm afraid I'm terrible at English and went on a tangent in the above. I'm happy to support Solution 3. ---on 3/26 @ 04:03 writes: First of all, try to ease up on the essay comments. Those are some long replies that could be summarized better, @Yarith. Secondly, support for solution 3 only. It's a Low stanza effect, and any more balances it would effect should knock it up to the Mid or High stanza range. Based on @Siam's list of afflictions, it would be better to have BBlues delay lucidity and steam instead of lucidity and dust as currently proposed. ---on 3/27 @ 22:03 writes: Solution 3 only, agreed that it's still a decent buff - that's probably okay. ---on 3/29 @ 21:12 writes: For a low stanza song, and with the overhaul placing emphasis on affliction stacking, any solution which includes a significant delay to curing over multiple cures is, to me, extraordinarily strong. So I would support this if it affected one of the four cure balances, or otherwise if the delay was shortened to less than a second. As to which, I think having this affect dust balance only would help with the passive afflictions from SpiderCantiga. ---on 3/29 @ 21:15 writes: Even delaying two of the four will effect half the afflictions in the game during a time when cure balances are becoming exponentially more important. All on a low stanza power? No thank you. Also, I'm not sure how this compensates for the potential situational loss of mana drain from focus. If that was truly the purpose why not a 1 second delay to scroll balance, sparkle or other secondary cure/heal? ---on 3/29 @ 21:17 writes: I've revised Solution 1 to only have BarghestBlues delay the dust balance only (previously all balances). I support the new Solution 1. ---on 3/29 @ 23:38 writes: New solution 1 is fine then. 3 is still okay, but I'm leaning towards 1. ---on 3/30 @ 02:47 writes: Solution 1 supported ---on 4/1 @ 02:37 writes: Solution 1 supported. ---on 4/1 @ 05:52 writes: Solution 1 only. ---on 4/3 @ 15:48 writes: Solution 1 or 3. ---on 4/7 @ 19:46 writes: Support solution 1. ---on 4/20 @ 14:14 writes: Solution 1 supported ---on 4/29 @ 12:52 writes: Also good with Sol #1.